[Intro music – The Air Force Song (Instrumental)]

Introductions

Major Laura Quaco:

Good morning, afternoon, and evening listeners. Welcome back to The Air Force Judge Advocate General’s School Podcast. I'm Major Laura Quaco and I'm your host for this podcast. Now, I am on the line with Retired Chief Master Sergeant David Haskins. You already got a bit of a preview about him in Episode 77 with Colonel Ja Rai Williams and Lieutenant Colonel Velma Thompson, and they had shared the story about him with Chief Master Sergeant Ty Haskins, now retired, who you heard on our podcast not that long ago in Episode 71.

But now we have Chief David Haskins on the line, and he was the first Black or African-American Senior Paralegal Manager to The Judge Advocate General, which you now know, if you've listened to recent episodes, is what we call the Senior Enlisted Advisor. Not only that, but he was also the first who practiced the Islamic faith. So many firsts by Chief Haskins.

He actually joined the Air Force back in 1976 as a medical administrator, then he retrained into the legal services career field in 1980. He held various positions in the legal arena, which I'm sure he'll talk about today. But ultimately, he became the ninth Senior Paralegal Manager, which was his last position before retiring in 2000. So, Chief Haskins, sir, thank you for joining us today on The AFJAGS Podcast.

Retired Chief Master Sergeant Haskins:

Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.

Inspiration to Serve

Maj Quaco:

Alright, sir. So I really want to start out at the very beginning. Can you talk to us about your inspiration to serve in the Air Force?

CMSgt Haskins:

Well, the inspiration to serve in the Air Force takes on a different type of perspective. Initially, my—my plan to get into the Air Force was for a job, for a opportunity for education. And that was the driving force. Yes, I had—you know, I'm an American and I wanted to be a part of the United States Air Force.

But there were personal things that actually led me into the Air Force, like I didn't have this grand vision to come into the Air Force as a—as a great patriot. I came in, like I said, to get an education, to move into that environment where I would have a better opportunities in life. And so I just signed on for four years. I had no intention of actually staying for a career. I was just going to be in for four years and then—and then get out. But life overtook me during that time period, and progressively I found reasons to stay in the Air Force over a period of time.

Maj Quaco:

You know, I hear that pretty often, people saying, oh, I just wanted to come in and do my four years and serve my country, you know, get a job, to a good transition to the civilian sector, and then you see them in 20, 30 years later at retirement.

CMSgt Haskins:

Yes. They say the best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. And so when you start off looking at the whole elephant to eat, it becomes a big ordeal. I can't possibly consume all of that. And so, but when you start eating one bite at a time, you find that it is something that you can accomplish. So, I didn't come in saying I'm going to stay for a career, because if I had said I was going to stay for 20 years, that would probably have been too much for me to even envision at that time. Four years at that time was enough for me to envision, and it made me be able to move forward a step by step, progressively.

Mentors and Role Models

Maj Quaco:

Right. Right. And so I noted that you started in the medical administration field. When you were starting out, did you have any notable mentors or role models?

CMSgt Haskins:

Yes. Before I mention my mentors or role models. I want to make sure that I express that a mentor is a noun, but is also a verb. And sometimes we get caught up in trying to be a mentor, noun, and forget that mentor is something we do, is something we—we practice, something we actually do on a case-by-case basis. And it's not necessarily something that we just say, “call me a mentor,” “call me your mentor.” It’s—but—but we can find mentors in the things that we encounter, the people we—we come across in our lives. And they may not know that they are a mentor, noun, but what they do is mentor, the verb, to make you become something later on that they may not even get to see. So, we can get sidetracked with this idea of being a mentor and wanting to see the results of being a mentor and forget that it’s the action of mentorship that actually is—is what makes people move forward in their lives and in their progress.

So having said that, one of the first mentors that I remember coming in the—in the military as I was a medical administrative specialist, was an African American chief master sergeant who I didn't know, and he didn't know me. But as I was at work, I knew that I had just very few stripes. And he walked through with all these stripes on his arms as I was at the pediatric clinic at Wilford Hall. And during that time period, he was bringing his child in for medical care or a well baby check or whatever, but the number of stripes that he had just so captivated me that I wanted to ask him, you know, what do you do to get all of these stripes in the Air Force? And so I walked up to him and I asked him, how did he get all of these stripes? And initially he looked at me like, you know, who is this little airman interrupting me in my day as I'm preparing to take my child in for medical treatment or a well baby check?

But then he saw, I guess, something in me that saw that I was not being facetious, that I was actually really wanting to know. And he softened, you could see he softened in his face. And then he took the time on the spot to give me some advice about what it would take to be successful in the Air Force. I don't know his name. He probably doesn't remember me at all. But he was a mentor because the action that he took that day really was beneficial for me.

Maj Quaco:

Wow I really love that distinction between the noun and the verb. Thank you so much for sharing that.

CMSgt Haskins:

Sure.

Maj Quaco:

Do you remember what type of advice he gave you?

CMSgt Haskins:

Absolutely. He told me about preparing myself to move into the next position that I'm in. Again, kind of like a progressive concept. You're looking at the vision of the—of all the stripes in the future, but you have to envision yourself right now what you're going to be next. And so prepare for the next stripe. And the preparation for the next stripe and the next position is to do a good job now, do a good job at what you're doing, and then prepare for that next position. And then he also said, find out what your supervisor expects of you. This was long before we had the concept of mentors, as nouns, or a mentorship program, or professional feedback sessions or any of these types of things didn't even exist this time in the Air Force, as—as a formal process.

But he said, Find out what your supervisor expects of you when you go to a new job. Ask that supervisor, “what do you expect of me?” And listen to what that supervisor has to say. And then he also gave me a very important piece of information, he says, and then tell that supervisor what you expect of them. This was foreign to me, you know, to go to someone who was my superior and say, this is what I expect of you, but he told me to do it in a professional and a courteous way, but basically say, “I need to know when I'm falling short.” “I need to know what you expect of me.” And then “I need to know that if I'm falling short of what you expect of me, that you will tell me that and give me an opportunity to—to correct my behavior, to correct my work product.”

And so, these pieces of information were the initiation of me into the Air Force and it allowed me to be able to focus on what I was going to do later in the Air Force, even though at the time I just thought, okay, nice little conversation for today. But to put it aside and put it in and to internalize it later on was very crucial to me being able to be successful in the Air Force. So, this was one of my first mentors who was an unknown person. But I do have others who I knew during that time period who were known—my immediate supervisor and my first sergeant, all of whom all of these people happened to be African American. And that helps—it helps to the envision concept. But I can tell you more about that if you like me to right now.

Maj Quaco:

Sure. And I'll just say, if you're that unknown person and this story sounded really familiar, just know that there is a retired chief out there who is still thanking you to this day.

CMSgt Haskins:

Yes.

Maj Quaco:

And that's some really great advice. I mean, he was really before his time then if we didn't have these initial and formal feedback sessions yet, because that is one of the things we discuss is “hey, what are your expectations of me as a supervisor?” So—so that's really great advice, Sir, because, you know, you might have those leaders who, um, might not be as great about speaking up and—until something's really a problem. So that's, that's some really good advice. And sure, I'd love for you to go into the other mentors, the first sergeant and supervisor that you had.

CMSgt Haskins:

Well, these individuals, the one I will mention by name, because I always remember his name. His name was Master Sergeant LeRoy Colyer. And the reason I remember him is because this is a lesson in second chances. During this time period, I was a senior airman. I had been accepted for retraining into the legal career field and some difficulties arose in my personal life that resulted in me having to stand before my first sergeant and have a discussion about behavior and activities and—and difficulties in your professional and personal life. Things that could have resulted in my retraining into the legal career field being cancelled.

But these individuals said, I see something in you that is beneficial. I see something in you that deserves a second chance. And so the—the concept of mentorship here became identifying not only just the problem, but the potential for future success and giving people an opportunity to have that future success by giving them a second chance. And so I learned from this experience the benefit of giving someone a second chance. But I also learned the benefit of getting a second chance. So, initially I got a second chance, which allowed me to say, I'm going to do as—as good as I can in the future, because these people have taken a chance on me. And MSgt Colyer, every time I got promoted in the legal career field, whenever I had an opportunity, I would reach out to him and let him know that I had been promoted. He never made Chief Master Sergeant. He never got promoted beyond Master Sergeant. But, when I retired from the Air Force as a Chief Master Sergeant, I sent him my stripes because I wanted him to know that those stripes were earned by both of us.  Had he not given me that second chance, neither of us would have become Chief Master Sergeants, but because he gave me a second chance, at least one of us became a Chief Master Sergeant. And so together we accomplished that task, and that allowed me later in life, later on in my career, to be able to look at other individuals and say, I got a second chance, now I need to pass that on. I need to give you a second chance.

Maj Quaco:

That's a really incredible story. I love that you sent him your stripes. And—and realistically, we all know that person, if we haven't been that person ourselves, right? I mean, when you retrained, you had to be fairly young, right?

CMSgt Haskins:

Yes.

Mentors in the Legal Career Field

Maj Quaco:

Yes. So, I mean, we know you know, you come out of high school, you're trying to find your way in life and—and you might find yourself in a position where, you know, someone can give you a second chance. And so that's really amazing to hear your—your story in that regard and then how you were able to progress and grow from it. So that's incredible. Now, shifting gears, when you went to the legal career field, did you have any lessons learned or things you took away from any of those mentors?

CMSgt Haskins:

Yes, there were both positive and negative mentors that I encountered. I followed that chief's advice with one of my first supervisors when I came into the legal career field, and I went to them and I said, you know, what do you expect of me? And this is what I expect of you. And that individual gave me some advice that conflicted with what the chief had given me. He basically told me, just don't worry about it. When it's time for you to get promoted, you'll get promoted. He didn't give me any advice about how to be better in my in my career, how to be better at my job. He didn't give me any advice about promotion as an animal versus progression in the legal career field. He gave me no information whatsoever. And so having gotten that piece of information from that chief earlier in my career, I realized that this was a weak example of a mentor and that I would need to look somewhere else for mentorship if I was going to develop in my career as an airman and as a paral—at that time, a legal service specialist.

And so I knew not to follow that example. As a result of that, I followed other examples of people around me, not necessarily in legal, and thankfully, as I retrained into legal, I was promoted to Staff Sergeant PFE alone, you know, PFE alone. I didn't test in the career field.

Maj Quaco:

Yes, sir. And so for my nonmilitary listeners, you're talking about the test for promotion to staff sergeant, which includes the two parts, the professional fitness examination (PFE) which is what you're talking about doing PFE only, and then the specialty knowledge test. So can you tell us a little bit more about that?

CMSgt Haskins:

The concept is that you have to take two tests to be promoted in the enlisted force. One of them is about your military understanding, your military background, in general, where you learn about promotions and fitness for duty and first aid and Air Force history and things of that nature. And so you take a test on that and then you take another test which is specific to your career field.

In that case, I would have taken a test had I stayed in my old career field, it would have been in medical administration, but out in the new career field it would be in legal administration. But because I had not done anything but gone to school as a legal administrator, you don't have to test in that area while you are in the retraining process. In that situation, you only take the one on the Air Force history and background only, and then you get promoted as you transition. And then once you're in your job, then you have to take both tests again. And so I got promoted in that transitional phase. And as a result of that, the individual was removed from my—removed as my supervisor and I was placed under the law office manager who became a much better example of a mentor for me during that time period.

Maj Quaco:

Great. And, you know, I've actually heard that advice recently about, you know, you're not always going to have mentors or supervisors that align with, you know, the leadership skills you would like to see. But being able to take what that person did and turn it into a positive knowing like, hey, this is not the style or tactic I would take in a similar position in the future.

CMSgt Haskins:

Yes.

Maj Quaco:

So it sounds like you learned from from your first supervisor in the legal career field of how you were going to do better in that position in the future. So thank you for sharing. I also want to ask, so you gave an example of someone in the legal career field who you learned from kind of what not to do, but was there any other mentor in the legal career field that you do feel like you took away positive influences from?

CMSgt Haskins:

There were many that I took positive influences from, and I don't want to start giving a list because I will probably leave someone out, but I would like to mention at least one in the enlisted side and one in the officer side that I learned significant lessons from. In the enlisted side, was Chief Master Sergeant Dennis Spitz. I encountered him initially when I went to Homestead Air Force Base as a—still as a staff sergeant, and he was a master sergeant. He would later on become a Senior Paralegal Manager to The Judge Advocate General. But he was my immediate supervisor, and I learned many lessons from him about how to accomplish your work, how to be dedicated to your work, how to pursue the advancement in your career. And he spent time just sitting down and talking with me to develop me in that—in that regard.

And then later on, we were able to keep in contact over the years as he moved to become a senior master sergeant and a chief master sergeant. We encountered each other at conferences and such, and he always took the time to talk with me and we would bounce ideas off of each other. And ultimately, when he became the Senior Paralegal Manager to The Judge Advocate General, we still kept in contact and we’d bounce ideas off of each other. And so I learned a lot from him, so this was a long-term mentorship with him from the time that I was a staff sergeant until I became a chief master sergeant, we stayed in contact with each other and he was able to mentor me throughout my career.

And one on the JAG side that I would mention. And both—of course, Chief Spitz is now deceased. And also the JAG that I will mention is also deceased is Colonel Michael Hoover. And I learned an important lesson from him. When I was a law office manager at Shaw Air Force Base, and I thought I was doing a pretty good job there. And he came in as the—the SJA and he was tough and he was demanding and he demanded more of me than I had had demanded of me in the past. And he demanded more of everybody in the office that I had ever seen anybody demand. And he—a lot of people did not care for him. They did not necessarily like him, because he was demanding. But every day at the end of the day, he would call me in as the law office manager and we would sit down and talk, and he would tell me his vision about where he wanted the office to go.

And he helped me envision how to do that. And his concept was very, very simple. He says, I'm going to make this the best legal office. And that at the time was the Tactical Air Command. He said, I'm going to make this the best legal office in Tactical Air Command. It's going to be hard to get there, but once you get there, it's easy to maintain. And—and that's exactly what happened. When he demanded so much out of us. He worked us very hard. He insisted on excellence, and we reached excellence, and we became that level of excellence for T actical Air Command under his under his supervision and leadership. And once we did that, then the accolades came. Then we became the best in the—in the command.

And then people started winning awards as the civilian of the year, as the NCO of the Year, as the as the officer of the year, with the law office of the—we became the best. And then it just took a little bit to continue to—to stay at that level. So he—he taught me the concept that basically reaching excellence is hard, but maintaining excellence can be quite easy. You just need to make adjustments as you go along to stay in excellence.

Maj Quaco:

That reminds me, I think we all have that one really strict teacher that we can remember from elementary or middle school, but it shows that they believe in you and they believe that you can attain that level of excellence. So maybe now I'm reminiscing on a mentor of mine, but sounds similar to yours, sir. [Laughter].

CMSgt Haskins:

Yes.

Maj Quaco:

Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing those mentors of yours.

CMSgt Haskins:

Yes.

Maj Quaco:

Any other—actually, let me ask you this, because we've mentioned that, you know, you were the first Black/African American to be the senior most paralegal in the JAG Corps. Did you have Black/African American role models or mentors or was that something that you even looked at?

CMSgt Haskins:

That's a very good question. I mentioned something earlier about vision and envision. I had many role models. Some were African American. As I mentioned early on in my career, the chief master sergeant, and my supervisor in the medical administration area, but in legal, most of my mentors were not African Americans. They were Caucasian, men, women, paralegals, attorneys. But I think the concept for me is the difference between vision and envision.

You can have a vision about where you want to go, but without the ability to envision yourself in the next phase leading there, uh, you just have a fantasy. You're just thinking about some fantastical thing that you might want to do in the future or that you could see in the future. So I never had a vision of myself being the first African American Senior Paralegal Manager or Senior Enlisted Advisor to TJAG. I never visioned that. I just envisioned myself moving along the next stage of my career development. And I could envision myself being a law office manager because I saw law office managers—black, white, male, female—I could envision myself doing that, and then I could envision myself doing the next phase in my career.

And then ultimately, I could envision myself becoming the Senior Paralegal Manager to The Judge Advocate General because I had made chief master sergeant. And—and there was nothing that said that I couldn't do that. I—at that time, I never even had the concept in my mind that there had not been an African American Senior Paralegal Manager to The Judge Advocate General. I didn't think about it. And then when I became that, only then did I think, okay, I'm now the Senior Paralegal Manager to The Judge Advocate General. And then I realized that I was the first, but I didn't env—I didn’t have the vision of becoming the first. I just moved along incrementally to become what the next thing was along the road to success or what I saw as success in my—in my career. So I think the concept for African Americans is to be able to envision yourself in the next progressive thing in your—in your career.

And that's true for African Americans, Caucasian Americans, men, women, whomever to be able to envision yourself doing the next thing is, to me, often more important than the vision itself. There's an old expression that says, you know, you dress for the job you want, not the job that you have. And so I say you work for the job you want, not for the job you have. And from that perspective, if you do the best job you can at the jobs you have, and then you work towards the job that you want to have, then you're always going to end up coming out on top because you're working better and harder towards the future that you that you want to have.

Proud to Serve Moments

Maj Quaco:

Right. I like that quote, work for the job you want, not the job you have. I want to shift gears now and ask you to talk about two maybe three things that you can recall, any contributions or memories in the Air Force that make you particularly proud to have served.

CMSgt Haskins:

One that immediately comes to mind is the aircraft accident investigation of the Blackhawk shoot down over the no fly zone in Iraq. At the time, I was—I had just been promoted to chief, hadn't put it on yet, and I was superintendent at Ramstein Air Force Base, and that's when the Air Force shot down our own Army helicopters over the no fly zone in Iraq. And I was appointed by General Moorman—at that time, Colonel Moorman—who was the SJA for USAFE, United States Air Force in Europe, to go down and be—and lead the enlisted side or the paralegal side of the investigation into that aircraft accident.

And after being appointed to—to be a part of this investigation which took place actually at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, is where I had to go TDY. And at the time I was actually preparing to PCS to come over as the paralegal manager or the senior paralegal for Space Command. And so a lot of things were going on at the time, but this investigation had worldwide interest, it had Presidential interest, and so some of the procedural aspects of doing the investigation were developed as we—as we went along.

This was the first time I believe that the safety investigation and the accident investigation were done simultaneously. So this was a unique and new perspective to doing these investigations. Historically, the safety investigations had always been done first and—and then after the safety investigation was done with the focus on safety. And then you cannot use any of that evidence in any later criminal investigations, and that safety investigation was segregated away from the legal investigation. And then afterwards, a legal investigation would take place to see if any criminal activity had taken place. But this case, it had Presidential interest and the report needed to be expedited. The investigation needed to be expedited. And it was determined that we were going to do a historical change to this concept of separating the safety investigation and the legal investigation. And it was combined and we were actually able to join all of those forces together to do the safety aspect as well as the legal aspect at the same time. And so I was very proud of the fact that we were able to accomplish that and—and get that investigation completed. And then I was able to leave and still make my PCS move to, uh Space Command on time.

Maj Quaco:

Yes, sir. And so as some—for some context for my nonmilitary listeners out there, when we say PCS, we're talking about a permanent change of station. So he's getting ready to uproot his life and move to this new position. And then he gets called out to deal with this huge situation and be a big part of that. So I bet that that was rewarding to be able to be a part of that.

CMSgt Haskins:

Yes, absolutely.

Maj Quaco:

Yes, sir. So anything else off the top of your head that you can think of from your time in the Air Force you want to mention?

CMSgt Haskins:

Well, I would mention on a personal level, I was really proud that my work when I was in the legal office at Homestead Air Force Base in Florida, we had some people who left it, Dennis Spitz being one of them. And then his replacement left and so there was a period of time that I had to work as both the NCOIC of military justice and then take over as the law office manager, interim law office manager, simultaneously as a—as a tech sergeant. So I'm filling a senior master sergeant position as the law office manager, and I'm also serving as the noncommissioned officer in charge, NCOIC, of military justice. And then because I'm also now the law office manager, I’m supervising the claims personnel as well, as well as the legal assistance, so the result of this work at Homestead Air Force Base, while also working towards getting my bachelor's degree and doing other things at that time resulted in me being step promoted to master sergeant.

So a step promotion is the stripes to exceptional performers. This is an on the spot promotion. And so I was on the spot promoted from tech sergeant to master sergeant because of the work I did at the legal office at Homestead. So this was a very proud moment for me in my Air Force career. And another aspect that comes to mind when I talk about vision versus envision deals with the senior NCO award for the paralegal career field.

The Chief Master Sergeant Karen Yates-Popwell award. Chief Yates-Popwell, had a vision of wanting a senior NCO award and so she talked about it for years, even before she became the Senior Paralegal Manager to TJAG—the first female Senior Paralegal Manager to TJAG. But it didn't happen. And so during the time that I was Senior Paralegal Manager to TJAG, I envisioned it happening and—and went ahead and wrote up the recommendation for this—this award. And then I had to convince Chief Yates-Popwell to name it in her honor—

Maj Quaco:

Wow.

CMSgt Haskins:

—because she—she did not want it named in her honor, even though she was the one who initially had the vision for it. I said I certainly wasn't going to name it after myself and all of the other chief master sergeants who had been in the career field had not necessarily been advocates for this—for this award. She had been the advocate for the award. And so I basically cornered her into accepting it being named after her by saying if she did not accept it being named after her as the visionary for this award, then there would be no award. And so she agreed. And I wrote up the—the—the proposal. And during the time of my tenure there as the Senior Paralegal Manager to TJAG, that award came into existence as the Chief Yates-Popwell award.

Maj Quaco:

That's incredible, because we still have that award today and we hear about it and how it's named after her. They give a little background about it before they announce it. And that—that's incredible that you are the reason for that. Even though she envisioned it, I mean, you made—you named after her. And that's—that's a true leader there, too. You know, you're not wanting to take the credit for it. You're trying to give it to the person who thought of it. That’s great.

CMSgt Haskins:

Yes.

Path to Senior Paralegal Manager

Maj Quaco:

I want to segue here because something that kind of stuck out to me in one of our preliminary conversations you and I had was kind of the path that you took before reaching that Senior Paralegal Manager. Can you talk to that a little bit?

CMSgt Haskins:

Sure. I think it still goes back to the concept where I started with the chief master sergeant at the pediatric clinic. What is the next thing you want to do? Do the best job that you can at the job that you are in, and then envision yourself at the next job that you want. And so that's the path that I took in the legal career field.

I didn't think about there being a specific path to advancement. Some people told me later on they don't know how I became chief master sergeant, let alone the Senior Paralegal Manager to The Judge Advocate General, because my entire career was done at the base level. I—I started off working at the base level at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base in North Carolina. I did go to a headquarters position, but not necessarily in a prominent place at that headquarters. I went to Headquarters TUSLOG, the Turkey United States Logistics Group, TUSLOG in Incirlik, Turkey. But, you know, so that was the headquarters. But I was a staff sergeant there, so it wasn't like a position that was going to help me be promoted later on.

Usually you're looking for work at the Numbered Air Force or a headquarters level later on in your career. So I did do a year there in Turkey, but then after that, everywhere I went, I was at the base level office and I just looked at doing the best job I could at that office, preparing myself for promotion the best I could, studying for my promotion test the best I could. And I ended up being promoted. And as I mentioned earlier, step promotion at Homestead Air Force Base. And then I moved to Shaw Air Force Base, where I was a law office manager at base level. And then I went to Ramstein, Germany, where I was at the base level—a legal office again. And then I may chief from those positions from the base level legal office.

So that's not necessarily a career path that most people who make chief master sergeant see. They usually see themselves working at a Numbered Air Force and doing some other things as they move along in their career, so it's somewhat an unconventional career path to chief master sergeant, but it worked for me being at those at those positions, doing the best I can, envisioning myself at the next level, and then ultimately making the rank that got me to the first headquarters position that I had, which was at Space Command at Peterson Air Force Base, but at that time I was coming in as a chief master sergeant and not actually hoping to be promoted to chief master sergeant from that position.

Maj Quaco:

Right. Well, thank you for sharing some of that JAG Corps career path. It helps to show that there isn't a one size fits all for our paralegal career field. Before we close out today, you know, I know you already shared lots of advice, but I want to turn it over to you one last time for any closing remarks or other words of wisdom you'd like to share with our listeners.

CMSgt Haskins:

I think—I don't know how many words of wisdom I have. I just kind of share some random thoughts that are going on in my head and hopefully they benefit someone. In summarizing, I guess, the concepts of mentoring as a verb versus just trying to be a mentor, as a noun, is important. And I think the idea that we envision and not just vision ourselves is also important.

But no matter what we do, I think the key concept becomes just be a good person. Just try to be a good person. Just try to do the best job that you can do in whatever job that you're doing and try to bring the best out of the people that you work with or for all who work for you.

Just don't be afraid to let people be successful, whether they are your peers, whether they're your—your seniors, whether they're your juniors. Don't be afraid of other people's success. Because if people had been afraid of other people's successes I went through my career, then I would not have gotten that initial information from that chief master sergeant. I would not have gotten that second chance from MSgt LeRoy Collier.

I would not have gotten the developmental and inspirational mentors that I had throughout my career in the JAG Department. But people are not afraid of other people's success. And I think that that's an important concept is to not just worry about promoting your own self and your own success, but don't be afraid of other people's success. Help them be successful as well, and everybody is successful as a result.

Maj Quaco:

Well, sir, thank you so much for joining us on the AFJAGS Podcast today. I certainly learned many things from you and I'm sure our listeners did, as well. So thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us today.

CMSgt Haskins:

Well, thank you for having me and I appreciate the opportunity to share history with you. And hopefully—I've learned some things again about myself and about others. And in the process of having this discussion and hopefully it'll be beneficial to others in the future.

Maj Quaco:

Yes, sir. Well, with that, to my listeners, please feel free to review, rate and subscribe this podcast. I will take any of the feedback that you have, as per usual. And with that, this podcast is in recess.

[Gavel bangs twice].

Are you interested in joining the Air Force JAG Corps? You can learn more information at airforce.com/jag. That’s J-A-G. You may also call us at 1-800-JAG-USAF. That's 1-800-524-8723 or you may email us at af.jag.recruiting@us.af.mil, that's M-I-L.

Disclaimer:

Nothing from this show should be construed as legal advice. Please consult an attorney for any legal issues. Nothing in this show is endorsed by the Federal government, the Air Force, or any of its components. All content and opinions are those of its guests and host.

Glossary

• AFJAGS: The Air Force Judge Advocate General’s School
• JAG: judge advocate general
• NCO: noncommissioned officer
• NCOIC: noncommissioned officer in charge
• PCS: permanent change of station
• PFE: professional fitness examination
• SJA: staff judge advocate
• TJAG: The Judge Advocate General
• TDY: temporary duty
• TUSLOG: Turkey United States Logistics Group
• USAFE: United States Air Forces in Europe